The Canadian vs. the American Healthcare System | Jordan B Peterson - Buy Bentyl

The Canadian vs. the American Healthcare System | Jordan B Peterson

The Canadian vs. the American Healthcare System | Jordan B Peterson

By Bryan Wright 100 Comments December 4, 2019


It seems indisputable I would say, that the Canadian healthcare system is preferable to the American healthcare system Except at the very highest end. And there’s a couple of reasons for that, that would even, perhaps, appeal to conservatives. One is, the amount of administrative overhead that’s spent by Canadian health institutions is far less in Canada than it is in the US. Partly because hospitals don’t have to collect money. So they don’t spend 30 percent of their intake on the financial end of the equation, which is approximately the case in the US. Everyone has access to health care in Canada. and because of that our rate of individual entrepreneurship is higher in Canada than it is in the US. And that’s because people don’t have to worry about losing their health care if they switch jobs. They can switch jobs more easily, and they can also take risks if they have a family. They can take entrepreneurial risks without putting all the health of their entire family at stake So these things can’t be broken down really simply into Right-wing VS.. Left-wing issues, right? They’re too complicated, but the overall point is that Canada has done a very good job of having that conversation. Even our socialists are basically fiscally conservative right although, they’re not socially conservative, but there are signs of the kind of Polarization in Canada that’s really plaguing the united states. And of course that’s not good for the US it’s not good for Europe where it’s also happening, but it’s also not good for our country. And I don’t want that to happen, so that’s partly why I’ve been objecting to the more ill-advised in radical moves that the so-called liberals have been managing over the last few years.

100 Comments found

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ZippySaboteur

any system that can take months for an appointment to diagnose something that can kill you is no better than a system that's expensive to treat that same thing.

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Renaud & Annie Gagne

Its better only if you dont end up on the 38 weeks average waiting list for an MRI. My dog has faster service than that.

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z z

There are significant problems with the Canadian healthcare system none the less, it's ridiculous that I would need to be put on a 3-year wait list to see a psychiatrist.

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Capt. Fail

I mean, sure, people may worry less about their health care, but that also makes them less incentivized to get to a position where better health care is possible, and takes away a lot of incentive for new drugs to be produced because competition would be eliminated. This along with a myriad of other problems that come along with the government being involved in anything at all

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David Anderson

From a purely practical viewpoint, Peterson makes a good argument. However I think he overlooks the fact that public health costs and policy will always become a political football in socialized systems. At that point, it's no longer a simple matter of supplying heath services, but a prize for various pressure groups, bureaucrats, pharmaceutical industries and etc. It also appears that he doesn't take into account the fact that there is a great deal of government involvement in the US system already. This further complicates making accurate comparisons between a socialized system and what a free-market system might bring to the table.

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Kyle Nesbeitt

Dr. Peterson, I agree that from an aggregate or administrative perspective that views the country as a whole, the Canadian system does allow the nation to be more productive. With that said, I have two concerns with the Canadian healthcare system: 1) the health outcomes, which (by all accounts I have heard) are either poor, very delayed, or both, and 2) the inflexibility of the system, meaning that it is impossible to opt out of paying into the national healthcare system because it is payed for with taxes, and it is difficult (as I understand it) to obtain and use private health insurance. Given that to you find the Canadian system preferable to the American system, how do these concerns factor into your analysis?

(I am a proud American, but I am genuinely curious about this.)

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Manny Pardo

lol how the hell can you promote individualism but then compliment a socialist policy which is a direct violation of individual rights by the state

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Notes For Space Cadets

Someone needs to red pill Jordan on this.

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will Nill

Canada traditionally doesn't have large groups of populations of poor, be they poor whites or blacks, Mexicans working under the table, and so on. Canada will see these problems sometime in the future. When I don't know exactly. White people dont have family to take care of each other and children and parents tend to hate each other. Decline of family, govt buracracy is needed to fill the void. Can't go on forever in either country

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twominutetips

Having both my children born with serious health issues and countless hospital visits and surgeries over the years with NO wait times (the worst go to the head of the line – as it should be), I simply cannot imagine how they would have been attended to in any other system. AND for those that rightfully point the finger at our Canadian health care over some issues, please remember its NOT the system, its the questionable people running it and political parties that are the problem. And it would be that way in ANY system.

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Rub Sikh A.I.

Jordan "I Know Buttfuck All About Politics" Peterson, everyone.

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Carson Luckey

So Canada's healthcare is good other than the fact that some people don't get things diagnosed and treated quickly enough in some cases?

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Chris Bryer

I do agree with you on that. However i think the hospitals in Canada are horrible. More then once having to go to the emergency room where there are simply no beds. Can you imagine sitting in a fucking chair with a broken leg? Or having to wait 9 hours to get an inhaler as one is having a asthma attack? Not fun.

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Orangeman Cometh

Peterson points to, but doesn't address directly, the real problem—the cost of medical care (note, I didn't write the cost of medical "insurance").

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captainjack8319

A dislike for a Dr. Peterson video…that's very rare.

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EuroYank

I like the clips, but this issue is too important to feature 90 secs…..

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Ed Powell

Obviously Jordan is healthy.

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bruce livingston

The thing that he's overlooking is innovation. The US foots the bill for most of the world's medical research and development. They're able to do this because the US is one of the only countries that doesn't force drug companies to keep prices down. So, yeah, it's more expensive, but there's a good reason for that.

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TeaTime

One main problem in comparing Canada's health care system to the US's system is the huge difference in population. Canada only has a 39 million people. The US has 323 million. Would a system that 'works' for a small population translate into one that will work for many, many more people?

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Clare McHugh

Let's see how that goes for Canada with large numbers of people that don't contribute and are also collecting many other benefits. I sincerely hope it goes well but the writing is on the wall .

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Relbl

That sounds like a city perspective – healthcare outside of major metros is laughably bad. I guess I would say in Canada it's good for what we pay for it, but it's not objectively good and no healthcare system in the world has it right. I lived in France and the care was terrible though you could get an appointment quickly. The British NHS is chronically short on beds and nurses.

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Seth Apex

NO the Canadian healthcare system is not preferable to the american one. The only reason Employers even offer healthcare as a benefit is because it's basically pay that isn't taxable.

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Beef Chavez

A free-enterprise system will always be more functional and more humane, but less pervasive. The problem is, that the government has already destroyed the healthcare systems that arose in the free market, so there is no alternative now.

Probably the best thing we can do is open up Medicare and make it accessible to anyone, but have Medicare funded exclusively by its own members, and put it in competition with the market to ensure some kind of price stability.

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Goldgabich

I would very much like to hear you elaborate more on this. As someone who speaks for individualism and is anti socialist and big government I am sorta surprised to hear you in support of the Canadian Health care system

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Uchihaclan28

I would love to see Canada collect the same amount of data on their healthcare services that america and the UK do on their system. There is little Canadian data on the wait times and the treatment rate versus the cost. And i would wager if there was the Canadian system would be shown to have as many problems as the american and the UK NHS system. But it seems Canadians are happy with their care levels so they don't ask to fix what isn't broken. But the question becomes how do you fix a system if you cant tell whats wrong with it.

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Notes For Space Cadets

If socialism doesn't work, why would it work in healthcare?

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JimmyDThing

The problem with this is that in America a LOT OF PEOPLE will go to the doctor for no reason all of the time. It already happen, talk to a doctor. It also means there will be virtually no funding for the people who have the rarest and most deadly diseases. As in Canada, if you have something that needs highly specialized care… you've got a good chance of being fucked. And if you don't its because the money was already spent in the US to the point where cost were minimal for other countries.

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Frosty

Costs of collecting money should ideally be passed onto the people who are at risk of not paying, kind of like with any kind of debt or loan, the interest is always higher for people who are at risk, to cover the costs of the people in their status bands which are unreliable. The American system isn't very good but it's mostly down to the interference of the government in healthcare and health insurance and the anti-capitalistic nature of it all. A moral system would do away with interference through threat of force and let people pick for themselves what is best and let people suffer the consequences of their behaviour and choices. The idea that healthcare is just given away in Canada and here in the UK where I am, it rubs me the wrong way. No one has ever presented good arguments about why healthcare should be "free" for some people at the expense of other people.

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eggo

I've lived with this type of system all my life and have seen it work. You have no idea how blown my mind was when i learned that the US didn't have this and that millions of people actually oppose it. It still blows my mind from time to time.

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Rob L

Talk about what would be better than both? What would be true and honest?

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blarg

LOL "Even our socialists are fiscally conservative" ROFL. Look at the debt and deficit levels at the provincial and federal levels man. Ontario and Quebec especially. That comment just lost you a lot of respect for being blatantly incorrect.

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Pete Gomez

The American system is broken on-purpose.

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Sage Antone

Disagree. As a Canadian who lives on the border, I prefer to go to the US for health. Not because I'm rich (not remotely). But because I can't afford the endless waits. I can't afford the unsatisfactory treatment, where I'm treated as little more than a number. The drugs are more expensive. The argument that it benefits entrepreneurialism doesn't sit with me, because everything in Canada is geared toward discouraging that. From the exorbitant taxes to minimum wage. I remember being unemployed and receiving many calls from the US before anyone in Canada would hire me. The Canadian system can work for some for minor ailments, or for some very unique circumstances. However, I would far prefer to live in the US under their system. I would prefer to keep my own money than give most of it to incompetent people in Ottawa. There's no reason why inclusion should be mandatory.

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chbrules

The problem with administrative costs and and more administration needed in US hospitals can be directly attributed to the burdensome regulations set forth by governments. We don't have a healthcare market, and that's the major problem. I can visit 10 different hospitals and get 10 wildly different cost estimates (if at all) for the same procedure. Why is that? Because hospitals rarely, if ever, have to deal with consumers directly. With mandatory health insurance, and the rapid adoption of health insurance by employment (due to WWII wage freezes and more federal gov meddling in the marketplace), healthcare costs are masked.

We need a healthcare market. If you want to drive prices down and quality up, demand free market capitalism. Lasik and other "cosmetic" procedures have amazing private medical institutions that treat the customers like royalty. The cost of Lasik procedures has fallen rapidly, and the quality and care have gone significantly up, for example.

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flyshacker

Dr. Peterson is brilliant in SO many ways, but economics is not one of them. Reminds me of Einstein tossing out his opinions on economics. A free market in health care services (what the U.S. does NOT have) is far preferable to a government authoritarian monopoly system with bloated bureaucracy and inefficiency with no competition. Check out some of the free market libertarian solutions.

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Z-Statistic

This is like saying "which would you rather have: a Mercedes or a jalopy?"
Well, if it's "free", obviously everyone would pick the Mercedes if only because if they REALLY wanted the jalopy, they could sell the Mercedes to buy a jalopy and still have money left over.

That's a silly question because no one gets that choice. The question is not whether the healthcare system is better or worse in either country. It's whether the healthcare system is worth it compared to what COULD be and at what costs in other areas. They don't exist in a vacuum. I could easily point to how the Canadian income tax system is less forgiving than the US.

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Eric Moss

If not for corporate tax advantages, health insurance would not be supplied through the employer in the first place! There is a small-government solution in simply repealing these tax advantages.

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*Danni*

Depends on what you consider better.

Americans pay $10,000/person/year for:
1. Basic death prevention, free.
2. 33-21min visits (1.8-2.8 patients per hour)
3. 1 in 290 die of preventable causes.
4. 48% get same-day appointment with family doctor.
5. 3 week wait for necessary procedures
6. All kinds of elective care from dental to turning yourself into a dragon complete with metal-implant scales.
7. Being first for all new drugs and treatment.
8. The ability to sue your doctor.

Canadians pay $4000/person/year for:
1. Basic death prevention, free.
2. 10-15min patient avg (4-6 pph)
3. 1 in 490 die of preventable causes (75+ age, abd infants where no resue was attempted not counted)
4. Only 31% get same-day appointment with family doctor.
5. 15-38 week wait for necessary procedures.
6. Elective surgery not counted.
7. Ten or more years behind for new treatments.
8. Not being able to sue your doctor (CMPA)

Be very, very careful which you pick.

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Ed Barr

I'm in the healthcare biz in the US and in Canada. The American TAX FUNDED healthcare system is huge – Here are the published stats for NY state and Ontario. In NY state $62,000,000,000 USD is spent annually for 6 million Medicaid recipients/patients/clients/consumers. This is not to be confused with "Medicare" which is a federal program of entitlement to all Americans over 65. NY state has 19 million residents, so there are 13 million people receiving their healthcare services elsewhere. NY State is spending about $3260 per person per year on socialized medicare (not including seniors) for a state of 19 million people. The cost per patient on Medicaid is about $10,000 per patient per year.
The Ontario provincial government spends about $40,000,000,000 USD on healthcare for all its 13 million residents. That's about $3000 per person per year. To my surprise, there is indeed a 2 tier system in the US and it is my understanding that most states have mandated that their ballooning Medicaid budgets have or will be frozen. See to me the 2 systems are more similar than different…….
No opinion, just food for thought!

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David Belcher

Yes, Canadian hospitals save loads of money by not collecting money…..but they probably save even More by Not actually having to treat Most patients!! I've seen it in action, it can be a fairly serious problem, but if you're Not on the verge of dying right then, you will NOT see a doctor….you will get an appt for the following year or some shit!! They will even refer you to one of the Private hospitals because, if you have money, it's the ONLY way you will see a doctor in most cases!! When my loved ones are sick (or myself), I am SO thankful I live in America and NOT Canada because we would just be put off until our moderate problem became life-threatening!!

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DeathBy Trolley

Canadian socialists are relatively fiscally conservative?

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The Pleblian

The problem is the health care insurance lobbyist… They'll never allow SM

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Jason Stroppa

YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE! YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DESTROY THE SITH NOT JOIN THEM!

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mcworld999

Canadian health care system has been declining over the last decade and a half. Govt reducing funding, reducing compensation to specialist doctors, and reducing the scope and diversity of coverage have made the current system a fucking joke. Thus resulting in increase wait times and sub par care. Socialist healthcare is only good for the poor… it benefits the poor who otherwise under the US system would most likely not be employed in a job that provided healthcare insurance. Lower level min wage jobs usually dont provide healthcare insurance. This is who the socialist safety net protects. As you go up the income scale the socialist system in Canada becomes less important. Majority of higher scale health services in Canada arent covered anyway. They are no longer funded by the govt. Things like optometry, dentistry, chiropractors, physical therapy, etc. are NOT covered. The poor cant afford them because they lack the cash and most do not receive insurance coverage at work. Similar to the US system, the more specialist the doctor the more cash it takes because chances are.. that specialist doc isnt covered by provincial health care. And if you're desperate for that care you end up going to the states anyway which again, is not covered. So in conclusion BOTH systems requires money the more specialist care you require. There is no benefit of one system versus the other. If you require basic medical services, provincial health plans is no better than medicaid in the states.

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Lord Edward

Sir, what you are failing to realize is that Canada and other countries can get away with the socialized systems they have only as long as the US doesn't. Do you have any idea how much America funds the cost of your prescription medications? How about development of medical devices and surgical procedures? All of that as well as loads of medical research that Canada benefits from are paid for by the citizens of the United States. If we go socialized medicine, all of that funding goes away. Yeah, everyone will have access to health care but there will be no medical advancement. Without the profit motive, there will be nothing new developed. If the US socializes its health care system to a single payer system, it is only a matter of time before everyone in the world will receive care based on the lowest cost. I don't think Canada or any other country is willing to pick up the cost of the research and development void America will leave you to deal with.

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Triumvirate888

That's a good point, but the overhead doesn't go away. It simply gets shifted to government bureaucracy instead of hospital staff. And governments tend to do everything worse, especially when it's a bureaucracy. We have the same system in the United States, and it's called the V.A. where the healthcare of our military veterans is administrated the same way as all healthcare is administered in Canada. And it's gone from being tragically pathetic to malevolently negligent.

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Hades1197

I love Jordan Peterson, but I must fundamentally disagree on this issue. Maybe I don't know enough about the Canadian system, but the fact that they have death panels and staggeringly long waiting times just for a simple check up let alone care for something like Cancer is enough to push me to the other side of the argument. For American healthcare if it went to a completely free market in respect to healthcare the economics would work out so that you'll have the best and fastest care out of necessity and you'd receive a bill adequate to the treatment that in respect to the economy as a whole would be relatively small portion of your wealth seeing of how important it is. There will be doctors willing to get paid very little to help people, the problem is that people are using insurance agencies which are synthetically keeping the price for care high by paying a set amount for a certain treatment and refusing to pay for others. Then over charging the people who've had problems in the past, keeping them in debt.

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Jacob Kent

Letting the government into healthcare and not fighting them away from it was the biggest mistake the public has ever made. No one should be forced to buy something.

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Liquid Bacon

Where are you guys getting your health care? I've gotten X-rays done the same day I visit the doctor, and MRI's within a couple days.

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Alexandria

The Canadian health care system is a joke. Sure, we're better off than most other countries — maybe even the US. But there's so many gaping holes in the system, the same system that is over glorified to the rest of the world. It's saddening to me that in a supposedly well-off and highly developed nation, our health care seems so broken and mismanaged.

My personal examples:
-Whenever I go to see my GP; he acts as if he's put on a stopwatch, trying to set a Guinness World Record for fastest appointment time. He barely makes eye contact with you, cuts you off mid-sentence and is very reluctant to prescribe drugs or refer you to a specialist. Not to mention he replies to many things with 'I don't know". Appointment is usually done within 3 minutes. The wait time? About a month. Ridiculous.

edit: deleted the rest for the sake of space

And I think the thing that bothers me most about our healthcare, is the fact that doctors and practitioners treat their patients with 0 respect. They look down on you and treat you like the gum stuck on the bottom of their shoe. Why? Because they can. A doctor that treats their patients like dog shit, will make no less money than if they were to treat their patients with any care or respect. They look at you as if you're sub-human, and as if they couldn't care less whether you lived or died. The nurses taking care of my grandfather act like just that. They talk loudly and laugh about their night out and ex-boyfriends, while the patients and family members are crying next to their hospital beds in the same room.They reply to questions with "whaaaat?" or "I don't know!". Like the gum-chewing, half-wit cheerleaders in your high school class. (Minus the good-looks lol) It makes me lose faith in humanity when I see these kinds of things.

This is more of a rant than anything, but our system is far from perfect. I would hardly even call it good. I would much rather pay for actual health services than get the cheap dollar tree service that I get for "free". To any Canadians reading this — protect your health like it's the most valuable thing in the world. Getting healthcare in Canada is like gambling in a casino, but with your life. Sometimes you get good doctors and fast service, but other times you don't. It's extremely difficult to find a different doctor, or get a second opinion in Canada, so you're stuck with what you got. Not to mention the wait times are horrendous. You could be dying while waiting 6 months for a diagnosis. Canada is a great country, but the healthcare system is greatly overestimated and flawed in many ways.

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Troll With A Purpose

The US administration problem is a result of corporate collectivism, just as bad as the government variety. #RepealThe17th

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Steve

I think you too quickly dismiss the economic importance and the frequency of use of the high end of the American health care system.

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Ed Barr

In the case of prescription drugs, the 2 counties are almost identical. Folks in Ontario and in NY state pay thru their private insurance companies or out of pocket and folks on welfare or are over 65 get their drugs paid thru the ODB (Ontario Drug Benefit). It was only recently that the ODB actually decided to use its buying power to get pharma discounts and that was only a recommendation from the auditor general. Ergo, no invisible hand (Adam Smith)….. drum roll …. GOVERMENT LETHARGY & HUGE BILKING. Unless you know how this complex system works in Ontario, you may suffer deadly waiting times to receive what is otherwise world-class care and that's not an easy problem to solve in giant hospital bureaucracies that employ as many as 10,000 unionized employees (Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre) who are not necessarily motivated by their job performance. Anyway, it's a very complex problem and I am not so sure Dr. Peterson has the a fully formed opinion here…….. but alas, neither do I.

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krileayn

Would like Jordan to take a look at this and have a chat with Crowder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

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Huai Li

Take 15 million illegals out of the US and put them in Canada and see how things change for both systems. Then see if praises continue for the Canadian system after all the leeches bog down and drain the system even more. Let this video be a lesson to anyone who chooses people and personality over principle. I like a lot of what Jordan Peterson says, but this is just wrong. The idea that the gov't should control healthcare is fiscally conservative does not compute.

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Deconverted Man

why cant we just take the systems that work and apply them? @[email protected];

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Ed Barr

The US has a larger per capita tax funded (socilaized) healthcare system than Canada. It's a 2 tier system in the US similar as it is in the UK. See my other comments for the actual numbers and the sources. More alike than different. As far as free-markets in healthcare go….. a simple actuarial exercise. The older you get the higher your risk to an insurance company, so in theory, one might find themselves uninsurable when they need care the most. I am not for or against and I think this is man-kinds most vexing modern problem….. so much so Dr. Peterson may not have a bullet-proof and fully formed opinion in this realm and neither do I….. Otherwise I find him astonishingly brilliant.

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Jimmy Jimmy

the conservative viewers are not gonna like this. publicly-funded Healthcare is good only when a country can afford it. if Canada can afford it I don't see why US can't.

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HP laserjet

The Canadian healthcare is good until you are in it.

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John Benacci

While I am overwhelmingly opposed to the socialization of foundationally vital institutions such as health care and education; Dr Peterson, as usual, makes a couple of good points. Owing to the constraints of time, I default to my standard two word counter argument: Danny Williams.

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Richard Parks

Even most free market advocates (like myself) would prbabaly admit that the Canadian system is better than the American system in many respects. The argument gets inappropriately framed as "The Canadian system vs. the Freee market" and what we have in the U.S. is pretty much the furthest thing from a free market.

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Bob Mitchell

Is Peterson out of his element here? I think he was just condemning some educated elite on bloviating on things they don't know much about. Free markets may be Petersons week spot.

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Islam is Israel's broom Rabbi Rav David Touitou

That's not true. American entrepreneurship is higher at 14% compared to Canada's 13%

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Seamus Callaghan

A lot of people in the comments are bringing up the long lines for the Canadian healthcare system. What they don't understand is the reason that America doesn't have those lines. The reason America doesn't have those lines is simply because many people can't afford to get in them in the first place. In Canada, your MRI might become available years from now. In America, if you can't pay the bill, you'll never get that MRI, end of story. We do ration care here, but we ration it according to wealth, rather than according to need. Thousands of people die here every year because they can't afford medical treatment. I say, late is better than never.

Also, we're not trying to implement the Canadian system, we're trying to implement our own version of single-payer. I'm not exactly sure how the Canadian system works, so I can't speak about the differences, but I'm sure the policy we're trying to implement attempts to address the concerns posed by the Canadian healthcare system.

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Ross Catto

Id be dead without nationalised health care. Was too sick to work and didnt have family. Noone chooses to get ill. Everyone should have access to health care no matter what.

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Robert Miller

The question that must always be asked : Compared to WHAT?

Why is it assumed that the only alternative for comparison is what the US has NOW? Why should we have to settle for some system because it "Works"? Why can't we have a system that works BETTER than that? I mean, no one is actually arguing that the US system is the best possible or should not be changed. And what is also a fallacy is in the "free market" versus socialized system, the counter is always "but how's the US system working"? As if the US system was a free market system. It's NOT. And THAT'S the problem.

Really, it's like if one lived in soviet East Germany and the topic was cars and the "argument" was, "socialists systems do in fact work to produce cars. Look, we have Trabants and Wartburgs. So see? It works."

The problem is the basis for comparison. And "it works" is an inadequate and false basis. Because if that argument were true, then we should give up all the automotive options available to us in abundance, affordability, and quality (at least far superior to that produced by soviet East Germany) as a result of competitive free market capitalism. Why should we be denied having Fords, Toyotas, Hondas, MErcedes, and on and on on account of East Germany's soviet system "worked" at being able to produce cars? But that is exactly what the advocates for socialized health care are consigning us to. Yeah, it "works" at producing health care. But wouldn't it be better to have health care like Ford, Toyota, et. al. produce cars rather than health care how soviet East Germany produced cars?

And for those "but what abouters" – but what about people who can't afford health care? Think about this – would it be easier, lower cost, and more effective to ensure that such people have health care when health care is generally produced more abundant, affordable, and higher quality, or with health care produced in scarcity, high cost, and low quality? Seems to me the answer is NOT the latter but rather the former. How is this even a debate? If your desire is really to endure that everyone can have abundant and high quality and affordable health care, then why do you insist on a system that results in the latter and reject systems that would result in the former? If there is an immoral agenda, it is the agenda that consigns us to the latter and denies of us of the former.

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Shivam Sharma

OK, then for the sake of practicality, lets all split each others grocery bills. After all, food is at least as valuable as healthcare right? These arguments are pretty non-nonsensical. Having a true free market system where companies would compete to provide the best service at the best price is the way to go.

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Austin Sefton

"Our rate of individual entrepreneurship is higher in Canada than in the US"

@Jordan B Peterson Clips, where is your evidence for this claim?

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JoeJC

The US system is extremely good but extremely expensive. The solution to these problems is not to adopt a socialised system with government rationing of care. The solution is to return to something which more closely resembles what the US system was like before politicians got involved and wrecked the system for consumers over the past 60 years.

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get paid 01

What is this communist bs. Go to Canada or Europe if u don't like freedoms

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Steve

https://fee.org/articles/the-us-rejected-obamacare-in-1918/?utm_source=FEE+Email+Subscriber+List&utm_campaign=b85942b810-MC_FEE_DAILY_2017_10_09&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_84cc8d089b-b85942b810-108226473

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Don Collins

I always have the same questions for the folks that believe that the 2 are comparable, or even that any national system is for that matter to the US.

One is the scale here. We are much bigger.

Two is the culture…We do not trust government as a whole UNLESS its öur party"running it

Then there is the libertarian question and it is a very valid question…..how does government control cost when it has no way of measuring the benefit of them. They do not run out of money, they either tax it away or inflate it away through printing, but they have no way or incentive to control cost when there is no profit incentive. MRIs cost a ton in the human heath field, not so much in the animal care health field. Same basic stuff going on there, why is that? maybe there is a reason. There is zero health benefits for any animals, even senior animals.

The scope of government never shrinks nor does the power it takes. Once they are given the authority over your health they will have authority over anything connected to it, such as the trial balloon floated in the UK over not giving obese or smoking folks surgery.

Your health is your responsibility. Sure, some folks are born unlucky, but that is where your local community comes in and where at best the responsibility should lie. If folks in your community are not helped that should reflect on you, but that should be through voluntary giving not force. Voting to take other folks money to give to folks you think should get it is NOT charity nor is it in any way altruistic. Giving voluntarily of your own accord is, doing through government coercion is force.

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Miguel Hernandez

Want to know how many Canadian come to America for health care against Americans going to Canada for health care?

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Insert Redletter Media Meme Here

I was just in the ER for 3 hours in Pittsburgh 2 weeks ago for a kidney stone, where they didn't do much of anything and then I pissed it out and just got the fucked evil medical bill, Fucking god damned 16k for Fucking three useless hours. Fuck America and fuck anyone whose against universal healthcare. The system here is pure evil.

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Teboski78

Part of the reason US healthcare is so expensive is due to virtually every procedure being covered by heavily subsidized insurance companies some of which posses regional monopolies. As well as the implementation of government programs such as medicaid and medicare. Because when you artificially stimulate the demand for a product or service you remove the incentive to reduce costs since you know to a certain extent that you will have roughly the same number of buyers regardless of the price. Consider procedures such as laser eye surgery. Which was prohibitively expensive to most people when it was first introduced, but, arguably as a consequence of not being covered by virtually any insurance policy the cost has dropped by over an order of magnitude since then. How about the fact that breast augmentation surgery is less than a 5th the cost of an appendectomy?

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paperEATER101

krypto-quebecois

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Charles

I was about to kind of wash my hands with this guy, then I saw this. Smart.

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#MAGA #DEUSVULT #MGTOW #ALT-RIGHT #4Chan

Canada is so cucked right now. We NEED a better leader!
This Obama wannabe is a horrible Prime Minister!

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Dan Smedra

Prof. Peterson, whom US conservtives appreciate, makes a good point. However, Canada's population is only 35 million vs. 325 million for the US (2017) and with a minuscule military and foreign policy budget their nation's fiscal spending has always been focused on physical and social infrastructure. Canada's highway system is to die for. But Canada has some deep cultural problems which Prof. Peterson is attempting to expose and address. Like Europe, Canada is self-destructing.

SOCIETY AGAINST ITSELF: Political Correctness and Organizational Self-Destruction, Howard S. Schwartz.

In a short 216 pages, you'll discover the psychological and emotional roots of the West's contemporary culture of irrational, narcissistic, multicultural feminism as well as pusillanimous males–a gender-inverted ethos fueled by a deep subconscious disdain for the 'masculinity' and need to deny real-world realities as the way to escape the normal pain and suffering of life.

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Caleb Cafarelli

the Canadian may be able to afford such luxuries of health care for all, but the main reason for that is that they don't put much funds into a military. They depend on us for their security, so without that, such a health care system would not exist. Not to mention in the U.S. we don't have waiting lists like they do in Canada, where only the rich get health care upon demand.

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Bob Stevens

JORDAN PETERSON IS A SOCIALIST!

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Patrick L

Not sure I can agree on this one. I mostly take issue giving the government power over all the health care. Why not extend the responsibility of your health to food, shelter, etc. It is just a stepping stone to collectivism. Seems like there is an argument about the outcomes, but I don't like the means of getting there by socialism. Plus, the fact that all the radical leftists want universal health Care is a major red flag to me. They probably just want more leverage to control your life, what you eat, your "risky" activities, and anything that can be construed as relatable to health care costs.

Plus, it's unconstitutional here in the United States. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to stop anyone anymore…

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Leon Me

Student loan debt is probably a bigger cause of decreased entrepreneurship.

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Brandon S.

Wait, what??? Isn't this equality of outcomes??? Damn Cultural Marxist!

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Tyson Henry

Who would have thought Jordan Peterson was a Socialist!?!? At least according to most Americans.

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douglas carpenter

Until you want or need it. You are placed on a waiting list for years. You have an emergency, you will sit in the ER for 6 to 12 hours. But if you are wealthy you can pay for care others don't have access to.
Getting a doctor is even very hard in Canada. Canada spends almost nothing on national security or to aid others around the world. It depends on it's strong neighbor for security but bashes it every chance it gets.
The USA has 10 times the number of people. A significant portion here aren't even citizens. EVERYTHING our government touches for the past century becomes complicated, unworkable and expensive.

The solution is clear and proven. Less regulation and less government involvement. Look at the veterinary industry. It has far less regulation or government money, yet major care for animals at a fraction of the price. The employees actually care and the quality is high level always.
Capitalism fixes most everything when allowed to do so.

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Average Joe

The reason why people can lose their healthcare when they change jobs is due to healthcare laws we have today. Rather than throwing out the baby with the bathwater, change the law so that people don't get their healthcare through their employers. The american people have the right to join organizations (AAA, AARP. many organizations for everyone at any age), these organizations can negotiate with insurance companies to get the best plans and rates for their members. These organizations have more members and any company in the world has employees and negotiating powers increase with numbers. There are many people in this country who are underemployed (work less than 30 hours / week) because smaller companies can't afford to pay for healthcare which is required for employees working 30 hours or more. Changing the law would allow these smaller companies to hire more people and not limit hours for full time employees and give these people quality healthcare for a reasonable price. Allow companies to give money to employees to help pay for their private healthcare since having incentives to attract and keep employees is critical to businesses. The way for all U.S. citizens to have quality, affordable healthcare is to let the private sector work.

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Arved Lenz

Why dose he agree with this beta posmoderism neomarxist stuff. Free healthcare is like promising free stuff to people. They wont get free stuff you know, the goverment will take all thier money through taxes, and then Gulag them or something! I think dis Jordy guy is some sort of hardcore neomarxist commie! Am I right guys?

For real tho. Its nice to see Jordan having an humanitarian view on this topic.

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Tribe

except in canada you will die before you get an appointment to see the doctor….also peterson is WRONG about US healthcare in that EVERYONE has access to healthcare in the USA…its notlike you get turned away if you dont have insurance…this is an ignorant claim by peterson and im surprised by it. rich people in Canada come to the USA for their serious healthcare…espeically the politicians that force the lemmings into the ghetto canadian health system

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RockCh4lk

What? The left is in no way fiscally conservative, the right isn't even fiscally conservative.

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Russell Fine Arts

America's health care system is HORRIBLE!!! Roughly 40 Americans have no healthcare and 1/2 of Americans have gov't healthcare through: Medicaid, Medicare, VA Medical or Fed. Employees healthcare so, about 30% of Americans pay for extremely high, super crappy, private health insurance with high deductibles and co-pays. Canadians are far, far wiser on their healthcare than stupid Americans (except Bernie Sanders).

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Bruce Wayne

Ben Shaprio's monocle just fell in his champagne

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Edmund Janas

Mosey on down to the clinic, Jordan, and get some braces on those bottom choppers. We'll wait.

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Kyle Murtagh

I'm a genuine socialist and I never thought I'd say this but I want to give him credit here. He gave a straight-forward argument for a universal healthcare system.

If you are familiar with arguments for universal basic income and universal housing, he literally just made the arguments both of them. Peterson says that because healthcare is guaranteed it frees up income for entrepreneurship and personal expenses.

But… two massive blunders…

2. He said even "the socialists are fiscally conservative" in Canada… Not sure he know what's socialism is and how you can be one.

I'm not a fan of Peterson but if I am to be in anyway principled, Peterson deserves credit here.

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MultiBooster123

I love Jordan Peterson but this is one of the few times I disagree, the only issue the us healthcare system has rn is its extremely high cost. Many people will quickly point to socialized healthcare as an alternative but let’s not forget that the reason why is healthcare is so expensive is because there’s already too much government interference in the healthcare market. It should be treated as it’s own industry and not as a human right. If healthcare returns to a true free market then the people will begin to set the price amongst a long list of competitors l. We’ve seen in many times in American history one example being the oil monopolies in the 1800s. What we have right now is essentially a healthcare monopoly

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gerad doyle

The Narratives should be measured under the social determinants of health, the biomedical model is not the method used when looking at health and well-being. I think JP is spot on here about how even though health maybe long, it is fair and balanced and something that science and sociology would adopt in a heartbeat… It's the only time I will stick up for social justice, as health is the framework to a healthy and thriving country, you only have to look at the determinants of social outcome of prevention to see the benefits of countries that have adopted universal income, every western county adopts this and it works periodically over and over again

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Joseph Porfido

While this is a good example as to benefits of the Canadian system over the American system it isn't accurate against a fully privatized system

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colossalbreacker

American Healthcare has the R&D burden. We make a drug. The price has the research and development costs built in. Another country makes a generic version without that cost.

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Original Sinquirls

Most of these comments were made by Americans, who listen to other Americans talk about a country none of them understand, regurgitate talking points they've heard somewhere else; nor are these talking points particularly intelligent in the first place as they make no sense and are not based on observation.

It's just so embarrassing.

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Clean Willie

Canada has a relatively homogeneous and small population and that makes a socialized medical system more politically feasible and acceptable. It is not at all clear that you can scale up a similar system to a country 10 times larger with a very large illegal immigration problem. Toward the upper end of estimates, the US has as many people here illegally, the vast majority of whom are net consumers of government largesse, as Canada's entire population.

Another point. I love Jordan Peterson but his statement about saving money in administration is highly questionable. Health care in Canada is not "free". Doctors and nurses and all kinds of other support staff get paid. Buildings get maintained. Supplies are bought. Where does the money come from? Taxes. Who collects and distributes taxes? Bureaucrats. Who do those taxes get distributed to to run the healthcare system? Other bureaucrats. As someone who worked in the US Federal government for 35 years, I will attest that fiscal conservatism and efficiency is not a primary concern of government bureaucrats. So claiming that Canada does all those functions more efficiently because bureaucrats do them rather than the private sector is, frankly, laughable. My guess is that the actual costs are so completely obfuscated by byzantine government accounting that the Canadians probably don't really know how much their health care costs.

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